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#1 2011-03-18 01:10:10

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

Hey, I've read the whole post on the gemini 12 & that was full of great info. I have the last version of the G-12(69, black tolex). The amp just doesn't seem to be as loud as I think it should. I have seen ratings of 22 watts or so & that sounds about right with the 7591's. I bought this amp as a kind of basket case, have gone through it & brought it back to life. I have replaced all electrolytic caps & retubed it. Voltages check out ok. Tried it with different speakers. Tremolo & reverb work great. My little under powered silvertone with 2 6v6's & 12" has got more bark. I got it with no speaker originaly, maybe the output trans is on it's way out. One thing that I did notice was on the original power trans, there was a short white wire connected to nothing. I checked the schematic & saw no reference to it, so I heat shrinked it for safety. I've worked on my vt-40,v4 & others. This ones got me stumped. Anybody have an experience like this? Sorry if I didn't post this in the right area.


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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#2 2011-03-18 21:23:11

hangman
Banned
From: Seattle Washington
Registered: 2006-09-03
Posts: 1848

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

I have the same era g12.   mine is by no means super loud... but I"d say its as loud as a guitar amp needs to be for me. 

have you measured how much power the amp puts out? 
do you have an oscilloscope to see what a signal looks like at the output or on the grids of the 7591s?

-steve

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#3 2011-03-21 00:43:23

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

Hangman, thanks for your response. I haven't measured the power yet. I just bought an old tektronics 317 scope & have yet to try it out. It's my first scope so I went basic. I couldn't pass up paying $30 for it & a heathkit audio signal generator. As for the gemini, I love the tremolo & reverb! Some of the best I ever heard. I usually gig with a vt-40 or a blackface bassman with a 1x12, i'm not expecting that. It just blew me away that my silvertone 1482 is louder than the gemini. Once I am able to test with the scope (when I figure that out), I post what I find. I do know how to be safe around amps, so no worries there.


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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#4 2011-03-21 07:06:52

hangman
Banned
From: Seattle Washington
Registered: 2006-09-03
Posts: 1848

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

while ampeg marketed the g12 to be 22 watts in later years,  early on it was called 18 watts. 
the silvertone is probably 15 or so. 

if something is wrong with the g12 it might not be performing to its full potential. 
I'd put my gemini against a deluxe reverb any day.  it would keep up in volume and sound better

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#5 2011-03-21 23:25:41

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

I wondering about how a later j12 7591's was rated at 18w & gemini at 22w. I'll compare the schematics & check transformer no.s for ha-ha's. I am determined to get it working to its full potential. I can tell this great amp was abused in its lifetime. I don't mind its scars, just want the tone. I'm sure it's gonna be something simple, hopefully give it a full lookover by the weekend.


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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#6 2012-01-24 14:30:11

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

So after many months I finally had time to go through this amp. Checked connections, resistors & caps etc. I never could check with a scope as mine is also vintage & needs to be gone through. I narrowed it down to the output transformer. I disconnected, tested & found the primary to be way unbalanced. The ot's on gemini I's are 6.6k on the primary like a fender deluxe blackface, so options are awesome. I'm going with classic tone transformers as their price & quality is great. Either the deluxe 4/8/16 (3lbs) or the larger trainwreck
express 4/8/16 (5lbs) which is rated for 30w are my
choices. I may get both & use the one I like best.I will post my results, hopefully sooner than later. Even when crappin out my buddies still loved the awesome tremolo & reverb

Last edited by FriedWires (2012-01-24 14:34:13)


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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#7 2012-03-02 17:51:39

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

I replaced the OT with a classic tone 40-18087 20w, 6.6k primary, 4/8/16 secondaries. Bolts right up to existing holes. I did have to drill a hole for the secondaries though, no big deal. I added 2 speaker jacks & a 3 position output selector switch. I don't care much about originality as this amp is rusty & was in shambles when I got it. Its now as loud as it
should be!


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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#8 2012-03-14 10:54:28

FriedWires
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 12

Re: Gemini G-12 as loud as a fender deluxe? Mines nowhere near

Update on the G-12: I wanted to use this amp for some gig use, gigs I consider more quiet/smaller bar. When I ordered the classic tone OT, I also got a larger OT from them also with 6.6k primaries, but rated for 30 watts. I was just a bit shy of the headroom I like with the stock 20w OT, so I put in the 30w. The original tone remained great, the feel is a little tighter & it now has the extra headroom I needed. The classic tone 40-18064 transformer is the one I used & highly recommend it if your looking for just a little more out of your gemini. It even bolts up to the other set of factory holes in the chassis, although I did have to drill another hole for the secondary leads. I have no doubt now this can hang with a fender deluxe. This amp rocks


Ampeg V4b, V4, VT40, G-12, Silvertone 1482 Epiphone EA-50T, Fender silverface champ, blackface bassman- i'm not addicted I swear

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