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#1 2011-08-21 11:51:32

patmac
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Registered: 2011-08-18
Posts: 11

SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

Hello, I am pushing my V4B to the point of distortion... I want to remain clean, so was thinking of using a Sansamp BDDI along with it to cure this problem.
Has / Does anyone use the Sansamp along with their V4B and how does it work for you?
Thanks

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#2 2011-08-21 17:11:32

Liquids
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-08-01
Posts: 491

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

How would you use the Sansamp to remain clean?

Are you careful to ensure you are not sending too much gain to the input of the amp via an active bass etc?

Are you sure that it's  not your speakers breaking up?

That said, I think with a V4, you're best bet is a decent solid state power amp /etc - you can line out from the V4 into a basic power amp/speaker and maintain your ampeg EQ and preamp into a solid state power amp simultaneously, to get a bit more volume.

Or get some more efficient speakers!  I was playing my bass through my V4 and a 2x12 cabinet that uses 103db eminence 'swamp thang' 12 inch speakers...I know they're technically 'guitar' speakers, but holy crap do they pump out low end and are nice and LOUD.


Matthew

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#3 2011-08-22 10:07:45

andyhightides
Member
From: Nova Scotia
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 34

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

The guy that owned my V4B before me always ran a Sansamp in front, and he got a lot more clean volume than I can get with the amp alone. He left the amp EQ flat, volume at 10:00, then EQ'd with the Sansamp.  I would have one, but the newer ones are plastic and cost more than his old metal one.

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#4 2011-08-23 06:31:12

Liquids
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-08-01
Posts: 491

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

Again, that could be speakers.

Clean volume is a matter of gain.  If you're sending a hot signal to the amp, you're going to cause the pre-amp to break up earlier than the available maximum clean POWER.

If he ran efficient speakers, and you are running inneficient (or underpowered) speakers, than the same settings would have caused his sansamp/ampeg to get far less clean volume.

Turn your bass volume down...or do you have a 'clean' pedal with a volume control such as a compressor or a boss EQ etc?  You can turn the volume down on the pedal and compensate at the amp, and see if it helps your volume threshold before breakup improves.

The sansamp is NOT a magic ticket to more clean volume.  It may make things worse if used improperly, and other things may be superior if used properly.


Matthew

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#5 2011-08-23 06:34:55

Liquids
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-08-01
Posts: 491

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

One more thing - turn the volume up to like noon or something.  Then turn down your bass until it cleans up....that should give you a better idea of how much clean power you have.  'master' volume high with a low input signal.

These old tube amps aren't necessarily made for the kind of output that a lot of active basses and other modern amps are capable of producing AND staying clean while doing it!   It's a vintage tube amp, feed it a clean passive bass signal or turn that active bass's volume and it's insane EQ DOWN!


Matthew

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#6 2011-08-26 12:33:31

andyhightides
Member
From: Nova Scotia
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 34

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

With the amp volume at max clean volume, around 10:30, I was able to bump up the volume a fair bit before distorting using a tubeMP preamp/DI between the bass and the amp. I'm assuming it's the power section distorting before the preamp when plugged straight in, and preamp distortion when bumping it with the preamp/DI. I used a Steinberger 5 string with passive EMG's and a Traynor 410 cab loaded with Eminence speakers and a Carvin red eye.

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#7 2011-08-27 13:31:01

Liquids
Member
From: CT
Registered: 2010-08-01
Posts: 491

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

It's mostly the preamp distorting is my guess.

Plus into the EXT jack and see if it distorts, if it's quieter or louder...that is ALMOST like plugging into the power amp.

If you have a preamp pedal, you may get maximum clean power that way anyhow.

Last edited by Liquids (2011-08-27 13:31:32)


Matthew

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#8 2011-08-29 09:23:10

sewage666
VIP
From: Oakland, CA
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 79
Website

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

I was looking for this video I'd seen on a blog some time ago, regarding this subject.

http://akavalve.blogspot.com/2008/12/am … art-2.html

In the video, the tech talks about the phase inverter valve in the preamp section, the 12AU7, as having more headroom than a typical valve used in that place, like a 12AX7.

This is where I start to get lost in my completely novice handle on electronics... however, he states that the typical tube, the 12AX7, has higher gain that accepts less input voltage before distorting, around 5V. The 12AU7 in the V4 is a lower gain tube that can accept more input voltage, up to 30V.

Does this translate as being able to boost the signal before going in the amp for some more clean volume before the amp breaks up?

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#9 2011-11-26 19:06:11

Godofbass
Member
Registered: 2006-05-17
Posts: 17

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

Distortion at the phase inverter would likely arrive in the form of crossover distortion(yuk), so the headroom for that stage is a good thing.

With good loud efficient speakers, the v4b will be seriously loud as hell, with trouser flapping bass! If you MUST go louder(need to shake the building apart or something), the ext amp jack into... another amp works well, or run the ext amp into a direct box into a PA. Or mic it...

But I don't know how a Sansamp will get you louder without distortion...?

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#10 2011-11-26 20:07:46

hangman
Banned
From: Seattle Washington
Registered: 2006-09-03
Posts: 1848

Re: SansAmp used with V4B / V2B 4x10

that guy is making some broad strokes... take it with a grain of salt.

if a 12au7 is biased with 1.2 volts on the cathode... and you put 30 volts on the input its not going to be pretty. 

and if one uses a 12ax7 as a cathode follower,  you can put a pretty high voltage on the input. 

its all in how the tube is used. 

in the V4,  the power amp breaks up before the preamp (unless you are driving the hell out of the preamp with a booster)   so no,  you can't get more clean headroom.   you can only get less.

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